Dual Diagnosis: Breaking the Stigma of Mental Health Through Music
In an industry overflowing with talent, the underground hip-hop duo, Dual Diagnosis, stands out with their raw, honest approach to music and mental health. Comprised of brothers MAD Mike and Paulie Walnutz from New Jersey, their work is a hauntingly beautiful blend of hardcore hip-hop, rap, and rock. In this exclusive interview with XXL MAG, we explore the depths of their musical journey, their unique sound, and the powerful messages behind their latest projects.
Interview:
XXL MAG: MAD Mike and Paulie Walnutz, your music delves deeply into themes of mental health. What personal experiences inspired you to focus on this subject?
Dual Diagnosis: Everyone deals with mental health. The scale and severity of it, of course, varies from person to person. We also know people who deal with it and are affected by it. We have our own personal fears and anxieties. We were able to transmute these feelings into music.
XXL MAG: Your latest EP, “Nature of the Beast,” was released during Mental Health Awareness Month. How intentional was this timing, and what message do you hope to convey with this project?
Dual Diagnosis: The timing was deliberate. Mental health is still a touchy and taboo topic. Releasing our new EP, “Nature of the Beast,” was and still is pivotal in sending a hopeful message for all people who can relate to the universal feeling of facing your fears. “Nature of the Beast” is a metaphorical narrative of the ‘inner beast’ — or facing one’s inner demons that reside in the subconscious and the inner traumas that exist in all of us to varying degrees. Everyone can relate to this ‘push and pull’ feeling of either embracing or resisting change. It’s a natural part of the growing process. Through this EP, we take these feelings and give them a voice.
XXL MAG: Your album “The Intake” established your horror-core style. How did you develop this unique sound, and what are its main influences?
Dual Diagnosis: The idea behind “The Intake” is essentially about the process of struggling with inner demons and finding one’s self. This was a collaborative project between myself (MAD Mike), Paulie Walnutz, and other featured artists that we had the honor of working with. We featured artists, such as Slaine and Gorilla Voltage. UnderRated helped us mix and master the project. We also worked with different producers, such as C-Lance and The Arcitype. We make music that we like to listen to. We were influenced by the heavy hitters of the underground music world — the main one being ICP (Insane Clown Posse). And we were influenced by the hard-hitting sound and lyrics by DMX. Authenticity rages through our lyrics to create its unique sound.
XXL MAG: In 2019, you collaborated with Slaine on “I Get Up.” How did that collaboration come about, and what did you learn from working with him?
Dual Diagnosis: We reached out to Slaine through Instagram. Surprisingly, he got back in touch with us, and we were able to develop a natural correspondence that we deeply cherished. By working with Slaine on the song “I Get Up,” we were fortunate enough to also work with him on the independent short film, “Untreated.” For the song “I Get Up,” we put a positive spin on overcoming the struggles of one’s self. It was a pleasure working with him. We vibed and connected with him. Each part of the song featured the three of us stating our own individual, yet cohesive anthem. As artists and human beings, we both can relate to the messages in his music. Collaborating with Slaine influenced our growth as artists. It made us want to be better and work even harder as artists — from the lyrics to recording vocals. It energized us to continue being inspired by and working with other artists in the industry.
XXL MAG: Your music videos, such as “Mad Man,” show your talents beyond music as actors, producers, screenwriters, and directors. How do these different creative roles influence your music?
Dual Diagnosis: We believe that music and film go hand-in-hand in the creative process. We always created films with our own music as kids. So, it comes naturally to us to overlap the roles as actor, producer, screenwriter, and director with the role of music artists as we got older and developed more of our style in the horror-core genre. We recorded the song, “Mad Man,” first for the “Mad Man” Music Video. We always wanted to play a role in this creative process and lend our talents in creating our debut music video. We both created the concept and storyline behind the music video. Paulie Walnutz wrote the screenplay. We both acted in it. We hired a company to film and direct the music video. It’s a cool feeling to work with people who take on different creative roles and to see how the creative vision comes to life. The horror-core genre in our music resonates with the genre of psychological thrillers in the movie and film genre. The visual narrative of the music video is about two people who live in one body (aka, the ‘mad man’) and go on a killing spree. The question that is raised in the music video is, ‘can others feel their pain?’ This adds to the theme of duality in mental health. This creative direction also references the surreal and suspenseful approach of Alfred Hitchcock’s style of psychological thrillers. In the beginning of the music video, a voice over of Alfred Hitchcock says: “So why don’t you relax, lean back and enjoy yourself, until the coroner comes.” And at the end of the music video, he says: “and this is music to be murdered by.” Our hip-hop elements, infused with these creative roles in the independent film industry, influence our sound and is what makes our style of music unique.
XXL MAG: Live performances can be transformative for both artists and fans. Can you describe a particularly memorable performance and its impact on you?
Dual Diagnosis: It was our first performance at ‘Culture Shock’ in Scranton, PA. After that performance, a couple of people went up to us and asked us the name of our band. That showed us that we made an impact with the crowd. It was definitely a memorable and transformative experience for us because it was a new feeling to know that we showed energy, drive, and professionalism. We take our process seriously, and to know that others also took us seriously, was a very rewarding feeling to keep moving forward as Dual Diagnosis.
XXL MAG: Your new EP features production from both MAD Mike and The Arcitype. How did this collaboration shape the sound and narrative of “Nature of the Beast”?
Dual Diagnosis: The production from both myself (MAD Mike) and The Arcitype was a blended fusion of rock elements. Making sure that the whole EP had a cohesive sound with heavy hard-hitting rock and horror-core hip-hop was very important to us. It shaped the overall sound for the EP and its narrative of facing fear head-on.
XXL MAG: The track “Patient On The Run” is especially poignant. Can you share the story behind this song and what it represents to you?
Dual Diagnosis: In a nutshell, “Patient On The Run” is a metaphorical narrative about myself (MAD Mike) as a patient and talking to my doctor. The hook of the song really encapsulates the essence of the story: “doctor will I ever get out of here, home seems so far away. Just another face I fear, tears run down all day.” This story is adapted from personal experiences about confronting and contending with my own fears and emotions. Its dark, yet shock-full dramatization is meant to entertain and enlighten listeners. Its lyrical imagery represents the universal notion that we are not alone.
XXL MAG: Mental health struggles are a recurring theme in your work. How do you balance portraying the darkness of these issues with offering hope and healing through your music?
Dual Diagnosis: Our music delves deeply into themes of loss, grief, pain, and trauma. Again, these themes and experiences are personal to us, but are also universal truths to others. This unifies a never-ending collective journey. We dedicate our music to “the still sick and suffering” and those who are no longer with us. How we present these themes are constant, but always evolving. We share the messages in our music to help listeners feel like they are not alone in their own unique and personal healing journey. Our words aim to offer a remedy of hope and a sense of togetherness. Mental warfare is a prevalent commonality throughout humanity. It is often met with stigmatization. The reality is that it’s a widespread phenomenon that does not discriminate. For us, music is a spiritual experience. We release how we feel. We are able to be a part of something larger than ourselves. Music has the power to be a shared experience to reach people far and wide. This is how we balance portraying the darkness of mental health struggles with offering hope and healing through our music.
XXL MAG: You’ve been in the underground hip-hop scene since the early 2000s. How has the scene evolved, and where do you see it heading?
Dual Diagnosis: From what we can see, there are more and more artists that are coming out in the underground hip-hop scene, and they are becoming more popular or recognized within their own genres. With today’s power of social media, many artists are able to be independent and create their own fan base, promote their own shows, and connect with fans all over the world.
XXL MAG: Your music is a blend of hardcore hip-hop with influences from the rap and rock surge of the 90s. How do you keep your sound fresh and relevant while staying true to your roots?
Dual Diagnosis: Intuition plays a big part in our creative process. We stay true to ourselves, while also staying open-minded to what is current in today’s music. At the heart of our process, we always remain authentic. We don’t go against what we believe in; we don’t stray away to fit a predetermined mold. We carve out our own sound. We remain committed to our raw lyricism and use of heavy-hitting instrumentals. We emphasize the importance of building camaraderie and community with others in the underground music scene. We blend rock and hip-hop, and I (MAD Mike) use my voice to create raspy screams for hype tracks. This creates freedom of expression and how it is able to entertain people. Hearing is different from listening. We let the music flow and speak to us. Our voices are an instrument. It’s about listening to our instincts and allowing intuition to guide us. This is how we stay true to our roots.
XXL MAG: What role does spirituality play in your music and your approach to dealing with personal and artistic challenges?
Dual Diagnosis: Spirituality plays a role in our life and music. Making music itself is a spiritual experience for us. Connecting with listeners and other musical artists we have worked with is also a spiritual experience. We have overcome many challenges and obstacles, which have helped us become the artists that we are today. The struggle of mental health is not glamorous because it’s a real thing that all people deal with on a daily basis. By embracing a spiritual message, we are relaying to listeners that music can move the soul in inspiring ways.
XXL MAG: The recording process for “Nature of the Beast” took place at Bow Wow Studios. Can you share any behind-the-scenes moments or challenges you faced during this process?
Dual Diagnosis: A behind-the-scenes challenge was that one of the microphones had feedback on it, so it gave off a scratchy sound for the song “Harsh.” We resolved that by re-recording the verses. Other than that, the recording process at Bow Wow Studios was a positive and professional experience. The engineer, CJ, worked with MAD Mike to mix and master the entire EP.
XXL MAG: Your Instagram (@dualdiagnosis_) offers a glimpse into your lives and creative process. How important is social media in connecting with your fans and promoting your message?
Dual Diagnosis: Engaging with fans and colleagues is important in any industry. It has allowed us to connect and work with other respectable artists, such as Slaine, Gorilla Voltage, UnderRated, and others. It has helped us work with producers, such as C-Lance and The Arcitype. By using the power of social media, it has enabled us to continuously learn and grow as artists, connect with what’s currently going on in the underground hip-hop scene, and to connect with listeners. Sharing our music, message, process, and behind-the-scenes moments is exciting.
XXL MAG: With the upcoming collaboration between MAD Mike and Lex The Hex Master, what can fans expect, and how will this new project differ from your previous work?
Dual Diagnosis: Fans can expect an upbeat anthem with raw energy and dark undertones. As an artist, I feel that I am activated from a space of higher awareness than ever before. Horror-core elements infused with rock and hip-hop is still the style of the music, but with a more hyper-focused sound. Lyrically, I am also responding and engaging from a place that is more aware of my past and what Dual Diagnosis stands for.
XXL MAG: You mentioned using your platform to raise awareness about mental health. What other initiatives or projects are you involved in to further this cause?
Dual Diagnosis: Raising awareness around mental health is a big part of our lives. It is something that we do every day. We are advocates in our community in helping others reach and see their full potential. It’s our mission to be of service and to spread a positive message for mental wellness every day.
XXL MAG: Your music offers a voice for those who are struggling with mental health issues. What feedback have you received from fans who find solace and understanding in your work?
Dual Diagnosis: The real award is knowing that people are able to relate to our music; that they are not alone. People have thanked us in person for our music. They respect and appreciate how our music offers a voice for those who are struggling with mental health, and how they are able to find solace.
XXL MAG: Looking back at your career, what moments are you most proud of, and how have they shaped your journey as artists?
Dual Diagnosis: We are proud of our collaborations in music and film with other artists. The feedback that we have received from artists, such as Slaine and UnderRated, was a very positive and educational experience for us. It allowed us to take what we have done technically and creatively, and keep moving in a forward motion.
XXL MAG: What advice would you give to aspiring artists who want to address serious issues like mental health in their music?
Dual Diagnosis: We would advise aspiring artists to know what they are addressing. They should write what they know and how they feel. If you remain true to yourself in your life and in your music, others will be able to relate to that. Putting down or dismissing mental health through ill-intended or misleading messages, adds to the stigmatization of mental health. You are dealing with people’s lives, so it’s crucial to be serious about the topics you explore and express. Personally, getting the message of experience, strength, and hope across, is critical. For others, how they address or express their personal experiences is unique to them.
XXL MAG: Finally, what’s next for Dual Diagnosis? What goals do you have for the future, both musically and personally?
Dual Diagnosis: We plan to put on more live shows, collaborate with other well-known artists in the horror-core genre, and come out with a new album. In the near future, we expect to write and record new tracks for an upcoming album produced by C-Lance and myself (MAD Mike). The concept of the upcoming album is primarily about inner demons and self-discovery. We are excited to explore the premise of how the light can shine through the shadows.
Dual Diagnosis continues to carve out their niche in the music world with their unique blend of hardcore hip-hop, rock, and horror-core. Their commitment to addressing mental health issues through their art offers a powerful message of hope and resilience. As they look to the future, their journey promises to inspire and resonate with fans old and new. Stay tuned for more from MAD Mike and Paulie Walnutz as they continue to push the boundaries of their craft.
